.Aide Says He Reported Foley 3 Years Ago
A senior congressional aide said Wednesday he told House Speaker Dennis Hastert's office about worrisome conduct by his former boss, Rep. Mark Foley, toward teenage pages more than three years ago, long before officials have acknowledged becoming aware of the issue.
Kirk Fordham made his comments to The Associated Press in an interview as a Kentucky Republican canceled a campaign fundraising event with Hastert. Rep. Ron Lewis said he wants to know the facts behind a scandal that has roiled Republicans since last week.
"I'm taking the speaker's words at face value," Lewis said in an interview. "I have no reason to doubt him. But until this is cleared up, I want to know the facts.
"If anyone in our leadership has done anything wrong, then I will be the first in line to condemn it."
Taken together, the comments by Fordham and the actions by Lewis added to the political uncertainty surrounding Hastert and fellow Republicans five weeks before midterm elections in which their control of the House will be tested.
Hastert's office did not immediately respond to either development.
Foley, 52, a Florida Republican, resigned last Friday after he was confronted with sexually explicit electronic messages he had sent teenage male pages. He has since entered an alcohol rehabilitation facility at an undisclosed location and, through his lawyer, has denied having had any sexual contact with minors.
His abrupt departure left behind a virtual sex scandal and a string of unanswered questions _ about what senior lawmakers knew, when they learned and what they did about it.
Fordham said he was serving as Foley's chief of staff when he was told about the lawmaker's inappropriate behavior toward pages more than three years ago. He said he had "more than one conversation with senior staff at the highest level of the House of Representatives asking them to intervene" at the time.
Fordham declined to identify the officials in Hastert's office he spoke with.
Two members of the GOP leadership say they told Hastert this past spring they had heard Foley had sent overly friendly e-mails to a page. Hastert said over the weekend he does not recall those conversations, but has not disputed they took place.
Fordham resigned Wednesday as chief of staff to Rep. Thomas Reynolds, R-N.Y., and said: "I never attempted to prevent any inquiries or investigation."
He said he would fully disclose to the FBI and the House ethics committee "any and all meetings and phone calls" regarding Foley's behavior that he had with senior staffers in the House leadership.
BreitBart
In any other context all what has come out would represent criminal negligence on the part of those involved. If it was you or me, we would be trying to explain ourselves in front of a judge.
But I guess it just does not count up there on the top of the ivory towers of power. Up there anything goes.
Kirk Fordham made his comments to The Associated Press in an interview as a Kentucky Republican canceled a campaign fundraising event with Hastert. Rep. Ron Lewis said he wants to know the facts behind a scandal that has roiled Republicans since last week.
"I'm taking the speaker's words at face value," Lewis said in an interview. "I have no reason to doubt him. But until this is cleared up, I want to know the facts.
"If anyone in our leadership has done anything wrong, then I will be the first in line to condemn it."
Taken together, the comments by Fordham and the actions by Lewis added to the political uncertainty surrounding Hastert and fellow Republicans five weeks before midterm elections in which their control of the House will be tested.
Hastert's office did not immediately respond to either development.
Foley, 52, a Florida Republican, resigned last Friday after he was confronted with sexually explicit electronic messages he had sent teenage male pages. He has since entered an alcohol rehabilitation facility at an undisclosed location and, through his lawyer, has denied having had any sexual contact with minors.
His abrupt departure left behind a virtual sex scandal and a string of unanswered questions _ about what senior lawmakers knew, when they learned and what they did about it.
Fordham said he was serving as Foley's chief of staff when he was told about the lawmaker's inappropriate behavior toward pages more than three years ago. He said he had "more than one conversation with senior staff at the highest level of the House of Representatives asking them to intervene" at the time.
Fordham declined to identify the officials in Hastert's office he spoke with.
Two members of the GOP leadership say they told Hastert this past spring they had heard Foley had sent overly friendly e-mails to a page. Hastert said over the weekend he does not recall those conversations, but has not disputed they took place.
Fordham resigned Wednesday as chief of staff to Rep. Thomas Reynolds, R-N.Y., and said: "I never attempted to prevent any inquiries or investigation."
He said he would fully disclose to the FBI and the House ethics committee "any and all meetings and phone calls" regarding Foley's behavior that he had with senior staffers in the House leadership.
BreitBart
In any other context all what has come out would represent criminal negligence on the part of those involved. If it was you or me, we would be trying to explain ourselves in front of a judge.
But I guess it just does not count up there on the top of the ivory towers of power. Up there anything goes.
posted by madtom at 5:40 PM
22 Comments:
And since the guy involved was no longer a page and 18 at the time, doesn't that make it a 'private sexual matter'? Am I missing something
Yes you are. Believe you me if it was just sex, I would care less, I would care less who, what, were, when.
But it's much more than the sex. It's the protection of pages. Imagine for one moment that it's your 16 year old son, and you happen to read his screen and see a message about:
"what you want for your birthday, what do you like to do on the weekend, send me a pic."
So you ask your son, hey who is your friend? I can only imagine that like me you would assume a message like that comes from a school mate, hopefully a girl. And your son tells you, it's from my boss, the manager of the McDonalds where I got that summer job, he's a 50 year old man.
Now, you tell me, what would be your reaction?
Remember the sex itself is irrelevant, and in DC 16 was the age of consent, so there might not even be a crime if he had picked the kid up on the street.
SEX CHAT WAS WITH 18 YEAR OLD
On Tuesday ABC news released a high-impact instant message exchange between Foley and, as ABC explained, a young man "under the age of 18."
ABC headlined the story: "New Foley Instant Messages; Had Internet Sex While Awaiting House Vote"
But upon reviewing the records, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned, the young man was in fact over the age of 18 at the time of the exchange.
A network source explains, messages with the young man and disgraced former Congressman Foley took place before and after the 18th birthday.
Developing...
From Drudge
In this exchange, he invites the guy over to his house for a weekend of drinking and acknowledges that the guy is not yet drinking age.
I just heard on C-SPAN that Foley had tried to break in to the page dorm, drunk one night, and that the male republican pages were warned about Foley back to 95.. so many people in the republican ranks knew something was up with Foley.
And at least 5 people have now come out saying that they reported something about Foley and pages directly to the leadership and or Hasert.
How many times would you stand there and hear something about Foley, and Pages, before bells went off in your head? If it had been only once instance, one report, anyone might give the guy the benefit of the doubt and look the other way. One time, I could see that. But report after report, and it's not about Foley anymore, It's about the competency of the leadership.
Can they be trusted, would you trust them with your daughter..well I retract that one.
All I know is that I can't get that skank Jenna to stop emailing me. Slept with her once on a retreat to Camp David (we'd been drinking) and she gets all clingy.
What are they saying they knew and passed along? That he was over friendly and they told foley to back off, after which they had noting else to go on
Only because they did not look, they trued a blind eye.
They could have investigated, they could have asked the pages, "did anyone in the office ever send you strange messages"
I don't care what you heard on C-SPAN, unless the source is credible
Time magazine.
would like to see a short, straight forward, confirmed account of everything that is known without all of the assumptions and specualation
You should have listened to the radio today. Three pages have come forward, from 98 00 02, with great stuff like, "did you ever see you room mates naked, and how big were they?"
All someone needed to do was look. But I don't think they even had to do that, all they needed to do was hear what people telling them.
No way, if it was a Dem I would be calling for the resignation of those charged with the safety of the pages. Those parents send those kids up there to get and education in government, and to make contacts, not to whore them out to the highest bidder.
"
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- A senior congressional aide on Wednesday said he warned top staffers in House Speaker Dennis Hastert's office about Florida Republican Rep. Mark Foley's behavior toward teen-age congressional pages three years ago, the Associated Press reported.
The aide, Kirk Fordham, formerly served as Foley's chief of staff. On Wednesday he resigned as chief of staff to Rep. Thomas Reynolds of New York, the chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee, after denying reports that he had attempted to prevent investigations into Foley's conduct.
The remarks put added scrutiny on the actions of Hastert of Illinois, the top Republican in the House."
MarketWatch
"
Indeed. Hastert read a statement on Monday condemning Foley then walked away while the press corps shouted questions at him. What did Hastert know and when did he know it? He then gave an interview to Rush Limbaugh and blamed the scandal on Democrats and the pages themselves.
Tom Reynolds, the Buffalo-area congressman who heads the Republican Congressional Campaign Committee is saying that he told Hastert about the Foley instant messages months ago, conversations the speaker claims he cannot recall. At a public event this week, Reynolds surrounded himself with children in an effort to avoid questions on Foley.
Reynolds claims to have had no knowledge that his out gay chief of staff, Kirk Fordham, a former chief of staff to Foley, was helping Foley with damage control last week and tried to cut a deal with ABC News, which broke the story of the scandal, to stop the network from going public. Fordham resigned on October 4.
Conservatives are now leaning on Hastert. House Majority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) threw Hastert overboard, telling a Cincinnati radio station, “I believe I called the speaker and he told me that it had been taken care of. My position is it’s in his court, it’s his responsibility.”"
GayCity
"
Why are Speaker Dennis Hastert of Illinois and other House GOP leaders in political trouble?
Critics, both Republican and Democrat, say the leaders had received enough evidence earlier this year that Foley was behaving inappropriately to warrant further investigation. The incident that critics say should have triggered concern centered on an e-mail exchange last fall that Foley had had with a former page sponsored by Rep. Rodney Alexander (R) of Louisiana. The e-mails, which the boy's family had brought to the attention of Mr. Alexander's staff, were not overtly sexual, but rather "over-friendly," according to Alexander's office. Still, the content - including a request from Foley that the boy send a picture of himself and asking him what he wanted for his birthday - had made the boy uncomfortable.
Alexander's staff then contacted the office of Speaker Hastert about the e-mails, but did not reveal their exact content, citing the family's request to keep the matter quiet. Hastert's office referred the matter to Rep. John Shimkus (R) of Illinois, chair of the House Page Board, which oversees the page program. The other two members of the board, including a Democrat, were not informed. Mr. Shimkus and the clerk of the House, who runs the page program, told Foley to stop contact with the boy.
In spring 2006, Alexander mentioned the Foley situation to the No. 2 House Republican, John Boehner of Ohio, who suggested he contact Rep. Tom Reynolds (R) of New York, who heads the House's GOP campaign committee. Reps. Boehner and Reynolds say they discussed the matter with Hastert, but the speaker says he does not recall such a conversation. Hastert maintains that he knew nothing of any inappropriate behavior toward former pages by Foley until last week."
CSM
You would have to be a fool not to respond to something like that, and fools shouldn't be Speaker of the House
push
I wouldn't think anything too unusual about the first emails unless I suspected my son might be prone to engaging in such behavior-
You would then be a fool. Predators prey on the unsuspecting and the naive. If your son were already active and seeking a relationship with 50 year old men, you would be the last guy in the world to hear about it.
My rep (office at least) sends my wife a birthday card and anniversary card and my oldest several emails---should I be worried?
Will that is marketing. It's not personal, I know they make it look personal, but everyone gets the same form letter, paid for with money they raise from Indian casinos and Chinese sweat shops in US territories.
We are talking about a 50 year old guy writing your 16 YO son a personal e-mail in which he asked for personal information. "what do you like to do on weekends", not would you like to go campaign on the weekend, and "send me a pic" not a photo for our files, not to mention "what would you like for your birthday", not When is your birthday. There is a very clear difference, which I refuse to believe you don't see.
Your not being honest with me on this one.
"I also was in the boy scouts, and know what to watch for when it comes to old queens on the make."
Yeah, he has his queen-spotting merit badge.
Will why do you keep blaming the victims? You think because Foley was making nice with this kid, the kid must have wanted it. From everything I have read, this kid, with the "innocent" emails does not appear to have been enjoying Foley's advances, and looks like he was trying to get as far away from Foley as possible. Foley was praying on the naive. I did not say that you were a naive fool, I said you would have to be a fool not to understand that the predators pray on the naive. This kid seems to have gone so far as to tell his parents, and his congressman that Foley was pestering him. And yet like in the case of the catholic priest the Parents were afraid to go public, or press charges. They were trying to get it handled quietly.
And you right Foley was not like a boss, more like a high school teacher. The kid in congress go to Page School, live on in a dorm, and are under the schools responsibility.
There is no way your going to argue that any contact between Foley and any page could be consensual. It cant.
Like I said, if Foley had picked up any other kid off the street he could argue age of consent, and Hasert could argue ignorance. But Hasert is like the School dean, and Foley is like a professor, the page is like a student, and there is no age of consent between high school students and teachers. not in Florida, you can be 21, but if your enrolled in any day time program at the high school you can not date a teacher. There is a case like that around here.. The guy was 21, enrolled in I don't know what and the teacher was a little older, they met for the first time off campus, and yet the teacher got like 10 years
And as to what you could have done had your kid been involved, try calling the police.
Hasert should have and could have moved to protect the page school students and system as soon as it was brought to his attention that something was amiss. Failing to do so here in the state of Florida is a very serious offence that can carry a ten year jail term. The same would to anyone that concealed this activity, even in the boy scouts. If I were you I would tell your story, maybe someone in a similar situation might see it and get the heads up, before he finds himself getting the head up way up.
Then why did he resign? I guess your going to argue till I have to call Rep's gay bashers. You can't tell me he resigned over being ousted as having gay sex chat, or was he ousted for being sexually liberal. I mean if he did nothing why did he quit? if there is nothing to investigate, why did the ethics comity issue 12 subpoenas? You know how easy Hasert could have taken care of this once the family of that kid complained, all Hastert needed to do was to get staff to look into it. they could have interviewed a sample of pages and asked a few questions. Without ever mentioning Foley, they could have asked, has anyone, or any congressman ever sent you strange messages, or made you feel uncomfortable. Here is an anonymous number where you can report any activity you had personally or anything you saw. Thanks very much. By waiting till now, they had to send out subpoenas. And you never know how many pages might have complained about Democrats. You'll never know, and we will never know, because now if there are any other offender out there, they will be busy covering their tracks.
No wonder we are losing this war, these people are as dense as lead.
We conservatives make a show of not allowing such things in our midst.
You know that feeling when you have a "gotya" moment.
Well we got ya. You guys were all more than ready to look the other way, and not see whatever you did not want to see, as long as it was kept quite, and in the closet, where you think it belongs. You only got upset that it became public.. how sad.
But anyway
no violation of House policy
There was a complaint, there were apparently like four complaints, according to all those I have posted above, but lets just focus on the one kid, the one with the "innocent" e-mails. He complained, more than 3 months ago. What else would you need for an investigation. I'm not saying Foley should have been hanged because of a single complaint, but I would have looked into it. I would not been afraid that OMG a gay sex scandal might erupt, I could care less if it was gay or straight, I just don't have that hang-up. But I would investigate a report that anyone under my protection was in jeopardy. Who wouldn't? Well we now know who that might be.
Sure try and move the discussion over to the minority, the leadership could have informed the minority, they could have informed the ranking member of the ethics committee as is standard policy, had they done this, there would be no scandal today. Everyone from Hastert down could just say the matter is currently under investigation, and we don't comment on ongoing investigations. but they dropped the ball and left themselves open to this attack. Even if I grant you that this is an orchestrated election trick and nothing else, the leadership walked right into the punch, their on the floor, looking up at the lights, and you have an 8 count.
The one sure crime that has come out in all this was the alcohol. Perversion of a minor, supplying alcohol to a minor.
But again, we don't know and we would never have known, because the leadership was refusing to look into it. Which is the real crime here. I told you from the beginning that it was not about Foley, it's about the leadership. What did they know and when did they know, and if they did not know anything, Why not.
Losing this war--- again, using the 'facts' to fit into your desired reality.
Did you see last night the report from twp senators, damn I forget their names, the ugly chairman, and the chubby ranking member with the reading glasses, just back from Iraq. If you did not see their press conference, I suggest you find it.
Even the Chairman gave a dire report, he complained that the Maliki government stage show, well he did not use those words, but... he himself went down the list of failure in Iraq and said that if they had known at the beginning, said why know one had looked at past experienced, said he was going to go look at how Laurence of Arabia did it way back when. the guy was mad as hell.
And now come on, for this guy, the chairman of the armed services committee to be on TV mad as hell, and talking about trying something new, "Changing course" on the eve of an election where Republicans are running on security, is fucking bad news if I have ever heard bad news before. It was bad enough that in his one hour question and answer session with the media, there was not one Foley question. He even joked about it as he left the stage.
Actually it sounded bad enough for me to believe Bush ousted Foley to cover for Iraq. :)
yea gotcha, what good are morals if their only for show?
But the way I am way tired, I just waked in, I have not even taken a shower yet, so this is a very short one, till I recover.
The prank story, is the prank, they spent all day today retracting that. You know why? It's worse if for the leadership if it was just a prank. explain latter.
On Iraq.. blame the Iraqis, on Foley blame the victims, on the elections, blame the democrats. At least your consistent.
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) - Even if former Rep. Mark Foley did not violate federal laws by exchanging sexually explicit Internet communications with underage boys, he still could find himself charged under state statutes.
Federal law generally requires a person to meet, or attempt to meet, a minor for sex before a crime has been committed. But in some states where the Florida Republican communicated with children, attempting to seduce a minor might be enough to bring charges.
Federal prosecutors investigating Foley are examining whether Florida authorities might be better positioned to seek charges against him, according to a senior Justice Department official who spoke Friday on condition of anonymity.
Foley resigned abruptly last week amid reports he exchanged sexually suggestive communications with teenage boys who worked as pages on Capitol Hill. Foley's attorney said Foley never engaged in sexual activity with a minor, but that may not matter in certain states.
E-mails and instant messages released so far indicate Foley communicated with boys in California and Louisiana, and may have initiated those contacts from Washington and Florida. The boys in question were all at least 16 at the time.
Under state law in Florida, where the age of consent is 18, a crime may have been committed if Foley is found to have seduced or attempted to seduce a minor.
However, a reading of the law is subjective, said JoAnn Carrin, spokeswoman for the state attorney general's office.
Carrin said the term "seduce" is "open to interpretation." She declined to elaborate on how Foley's communications may have violated state law.
Jeff Harris, president of the Florida Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, said the matter may come down to Foley's intent.
"He may have just gone to the precipice of a cliff but not jumped, which means he didn't commit a crime," Harris said. "If he's encouraging a minor to commit a sex act, I think you've crossed a legal line. Anytime you're talking sexually with a minor on a computer, you're flirting with an arrest."
In Louisiana, it is a felony for an adult to engage in sexually explicit Internet communications with anyone under 17, said Mike Johnson, a special agent with the state attorney general's office.
"It just has to be sexual in nature," Johnson said.
In the District of Columbia, the law is more complex.
It is not illegal for an adult to have sexual relations with a person at least 16 years old, so long as that person is not in a position of authority over the minor. But it is illegal to communicate any sexually related materials to a minor, such as magazines or any printed material, which could include Internet messages, said Jack King, spokesman for the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers.
The District "doesn't have any Internet-related statutes regarding Internet related sexual conduct," King said.
In California, it is illegal to send sexually suggestive communications to a person under 18, said Sandi Gibbons, a spokeswoman for the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office.
But Los Angeles criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos said cases are rarely prosecuted if the adult does not at least attempt to meet the child.
"Words alone generally are not going to be enough to prove a crime," Geragos said. "You'd have to have some act in furtherance of the lewd talk."
MyWay
Here is one answer Will
I was wondering about this, because of that DHS guy who got arrested not long ago. He never actually had sex with a minor either, as a matter of fact, because it was a sting, he never really exchanged messaged with a real minor either.
On the Iraq events---
OK I just had the time to read what you wrote. I agree with much of it. Though I'm pissed as hell that they waited till now to do what was obvious. We all saw this coming, the insurgents did not move into Baghdad yesterday, they have been tactically moving in neighborhood by neighborhood for the past year. Many were screaming for help, yet it's almost like the current actions were an afterthought. The Strykers being stop-losed in to Baghdad at the last minuet, the militias allowed to grow out of proportion. I mean what were they thinking. It's like an afterthought. We act like chickens running around without a head. If thats not like losing, what is.
I know, I can not wait for Buck Sgt to post aging, it's almost like a news blackout. No one is talking about anything. Then you guys complain about the poor coverage from the MSM, but what else is there?
There have not even been any more reports out of the Embeds, like the guy that was working for AP out of Ramadi. Radio silence
We should move the Iraq debate to a new post, they are going to get lost in here.
how do the operators of sat, broadcast TV, magazines, internet and others stay out of the federal pen?
That's an easy one Will, they are not addressing it to any minors. The parent has control over access. You can use a V-chip, you can use a filter on the internet. You can buy an internet connection that filters out all sexual content. Did you know that TT can not read this Blog, nor can Neurotic Iraqi Wife from her home in UAE. Of course in both those two cases someone forced that decisions down their throat. Here you can make you own mind.
---Baker was brought in to recommend that Iraq be divided into three loosely confderated states,
That will be a mistake. I hope they are only using it as threat that they are never going to actually allow. Trying to divide will only play into the hands of the enemy. It will insure an all out civil war/ all out war with the US, armies of jihadist will march on Kurdistan to eradicate us and the Kurds. Mark my words. What the Arabs want is unity, the caliphate, trying to devise them more will ensure a rebellion.
What we really need to do is to convince the masses that the only possible path to unity is through the establishment of democratic institutions. I know not easy but once they understand how that works, they will line up by the billions.
On your characterization of my consistency-- you still haven't identified a victim for me to blame.
I forgot about this one. Yes we did, in the hypothetical about "your 16 yo" You blamed your own hypothetical son, saying that if he was receiving these emails it was because he wanted it. Let me go find the quote.
I wouldn't think anything too unusual about the first emails unless I suspected my son might be prone to engaging in such behavior [...] well, if my son had a history of engaging in online sex with older men. [...] That being said, the email I read would have made me curious and prompted a little heart to heart about certain types of people in the world. If I had a 16-17-18 year old who wanted to engage in such things, [...] Kids that age that are on the web, especially doing IM, aren't unwitting victims [...]we have documented a sad old self hating queen seeking some nasty talk with willing, legal participants.
You constantly trying to shift the blame on to the victim, you say he's "willing", "prone", "engaging", "engage", "wanted", "aren't unwitting", all those adjectives directed at the victim. A person who did noting more than open an e-mail program, or a chat program and found himself confronted with conversation from someone which wielded a great deal of power over him, not an anonymouse strange, someone with whom it would be unnerving to just rudely cut him off. You know, like telling the guy to "go fuck yourself and leave me alone".
Not simply because of his age, but because he might have wanted to excel in the page program and starting a war would have put an end to that dream real fast.
I will continue to give the kid the benefit of the doubt till proven wrong.
you know damn well there isn't a 16 year old within the borders who haven't heard and seen far worse than having a creepy old guy ask them for their birthday.
And you know as well, that is part of the seduction. No is going to just walk up and ask for a blow job. You make your move step by step. Slowly building up the confidence. Most of use only seduce a few people in our entire lives, and most of the time we either have the intention of building a long term relationship. Foley had no such intention. He may have seduced 100's of "boys" in his life time. He was a predator. You can not expect your average 16 yo to have the experience to handle that situation. I know 16yo have seen many things, and most likely are already sexually active. But that gives them no defense whatsoever for what Foley was up too.
Unless of course the kid has already experienced abuse, or knows someone close who has. It's the difference between having batted a few balls in your local ball park, and standing in front of a NBL pitcher. You have no idea what's about to happen to you, nor how fast it's coming at you.
The pro will be in total control. He could lob you a few easy ones to build you up, he could put the ball at the right place and know exactly where your going to hit it to, just when you think you got the hang of this batting deal, he comes in for the kill. You wont know what hit you.
On Iraq...Your describing a failure on the part of the US administration. The Shi'a will be "driven" into the arms of the mullahs in Iraq, the Sunnis into the arms of the Syrians and or Hamas, with the support of the Saudis, the Kurds will be cut off, the repression in all the other Kurdish areas will increase dramatically, they'll be starved off, Turkey will cut off all access across it's borders, they will be under attack from all sides.
This fire storm will burn for a long time, much longer that anyone might imagine today.
how to get a hot young guy into bed
What do you do with a statement like that, do I refute it, do I state my heterosexuality, should I post references.
I mean, no I have not beat my wife "today".
don't worry, be happy.
It's hard for me to just be happy. How will this disaster in Iraq help me bring democracy back to Cuba?
Will other countries be amenable to changing from their dictatorial regime to a more open system. Will the rank of the dictators club shrink or swell. I will I could be more dispassionate, but I have a vested interest in success.
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